Greetings Cosmic Americans!On March 31, 2012, The Museum of the Confederacy will open the doors at their new site in Appomattox. Let's get right to the point. Neo-Confederate heritage groups have their panties in knot over the museum's decision NOT to fly any Confederate flags. There will be an American flag and flags representing all the states of the former (emphasis...former) Confederacy. But no Stars and Bars...no battle flags.
My position on flying Confederate flags in public areas and at public buildings is well known. These banners are hardly innocuous symbols of a "cause thought just." Displaying them has a tendency to arouse bitter ire. And rightfully so. They flew at the head of treasonous columns hell bent on destroying the nation...they flew over a government established to preserve slavery. So they belong IN the museum - not flying over it. And that is ALL I will say on the topic.
Why? Because I have found that arguing with neo-Confederates has little to no utility. So I won't waste my time. I do think it is necessary to point out what exactly is going on, though - just to inform my readers (if you don't already know) that there is a pretty upset unreconstructed bunch out there. The flaggers have promised to organize a public campaign to rectify this "insult," which will include a demonstration at the museum's opening on Sunday. In all fairness, I think it appropriate to offer their side of the story. You can find some pretty choice nuggets HERE.
Also, the flaggers have organized a Facebook page rallying the troops to the (long defeated) southern cause. And, an additional note - flaggers will be meeting the day before the museum showdown at the Appomattox Pizza Hut at 5:30. I guess they want to bulk up on some healthy eats to fortify their two days of protest.
For the record - the Museum of the Confederacy is a wonderful organization dedicated to preserving the history of a profound event that nearly tore the nation apart. The museum is not a neo-Confederate organization nor does it implicitly endorse secession or the Confederate States of America. The assumption forwarded by the flaggers that the MOC should honor (and thus endorse) secessionist emblems is ludicrous.
Waite Rawls, the executive director of the museum (the flaggers refer to him as a "Scallawag") had this to say: "Appomattox is a metaphor for the reunification of the country. To put the Confederate flag into that display would be a historical untruth."
I'll close with that - but leave things open for discussion. Full disclosure: flaggers...I am not going to argue with you. Period. If you are determined to fly your flags, do so on your private property, as it is your right to do so. I have said all I care to say on why the public display of Rebel flags is wrong. But if you have something insightful to contribute, be my guest.
Peace,
Keith
I'm all for flying the flag there. That's my opinion on it but I can see how it could go any way. Personally, looking at it from the other side if there was a native American museum would they want the American flag being flown there?
ReplyDeleteI'm all for flying one there, too. I don't own a Confederate flag myself, however, it is apart of the history. The flag doesn't need to have such a negative connotation. Unfortunately, it sometimes falls into the wrong hands.
ReplyDeleteI say no. The flaggers have taken the Confederate Battle Flag out of its historical context to mean different and often malicious things - indeed, it is the antithesis of freedom since it symbolizes the slaveholding republic the rebels waged the cruelest of wars to create.
ReplyDeleteIn 2009 I visited Fort Sumter where they fly two Confederate flags but in a unique context. In a line, they have the 34-star US flag of 1861, the first Confederate flag, the South Carolina flag, the second Confederate flag (with a small Stars and Bars in the corner), and the 36-star US flag (West Virginia and Nevada joined the Union during the war). But behind them flies the 50-star US flag, twice as large and twice as high as the others. This has a clear order of precedence and importance. Perhaps the MoC could do something like this, where the Confederate flags are given no special consideration, and definitely not equal to the United States of today.
I guess I don't have an issue with them flying at a museum setting. That's the purpose of museums...to commemorate the past. Fort Sumter has the flags flying overhead so I wouldn't have much of an issue at a museum.
ReplyDeleteJohn - Thanks for the comment. But I respectfully disagree. A museum's job is not to commemorate the past, but to preserve it. There is an enormous difference.
ReplyDeleteRenee - thank you for the comment. I do not believe that the MOC is worried about negative connotations as much as I am. Their central concern, as stated by the director, is that they are interpreting Appomattox as a site of reunion (personally, I think they are a little off base. Appomattox, in my opinion, is a site of persistent contention, as evidenced by this controversy). According to the MOC, flying a flag of disunion above the building alongside the United States flag would therefore be in appropriate. But as it is a museum, I am quite certain there will be plenty of Confederate flags inside and on display in what the MOC deems as the proper context.
ReplyDeleteChris - I suppose that all depends on the context.
ReplyDeleteScott - I can almost see having the several Confederate flags on display in the context you mention. Still - that is not what the flaggers want. They want equal recognition and equal honor - as if the Confederacy remained a legitimate nation.
ReplyDeleteKeith, my point was to have the items of the past on display. History can be preserved in a storeroom somewhere in the basement of a university library. Things like these, even flags, should be out on display to serve as a remembrance of its place in history. I didn't mention they should be celebrated, but rather commemorated on their importance in our history.
ReplyDeleteJohn - I believe they should be on display as well - but inside the museum, in their proper context as historical relics. The flaggers want them flying alongside the US flag and state flags above the building. This I believe legitimizes the Confederacy and its cause and should not be done. The MOC believes that this would go against their views of Appomattox as a site of reunion. Either way - as museum pieces...I am more than fine with displaying the flags. And I am quite sure they will have plenty to behold - just like the MOC in Richmond.
ReplyDeleteThanks again for your comments. And perhaps I misunderstood your meaning - but I understand "commemoration" as a celebration in which an event or person is remembered. I am heavily invested in remembering the Confederacy and its symbols (it's my life's work) - but not commemorating them.
I will have to agree with you Kieth, the flag should be on display but not over the building. I would no sooner support the flying of a foreign flag over any building in the US, let alone one from an entity no longer in existence. Planting a flag is a message of ownership and relationship, the Confederacy is related to our history but owns nothing of a material nature. I also disagree with movements to disavow our history with that banner or remove it from public sight, it just shouldn't fly over any building.
ReplyDeleteThis museum is privately owned, correct? If that's the case, then it's their decision on what flags to fly.
ReplyDeleteYes Renee, it is - and they made their decision not to fly the flag. But now the museum is being bullied by others who think they should - and by implication, honor the Confederate government.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment, Phillip - I agree entirely.
ReplyDeleteKieth,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the forum.
MoCman Rawls is incorrect on a few things, as in there was no reunification at Appomattox, only a small battle and a surrender. In this context, the Virginia Flaggers say either a ANV battleflag or 3rd National CSA should fly, on a pole, on the grounds. All the rest you say is incorrect.
Only Rawls said we Flaggers wanted it to be crammed into his precious "Reunification Promande" We have told him both on the phone and via email that a flag should be placed seperate, but definantly included on the grounds outside.
MoCman Rawls stated in defence of the new museum that the MoC is 'historically correct'. Just off the top of my head, I do believe that neither will the state flags to be displayed be period accurate, or that in 1865, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, Missouri, Maryland and Kentucky did not have state flags.
MoCman Rawls has said that he presented the Appomattox plans in person to 7 different SCV camps, and they all gave full acclimation without dissent. When the 7 camps were contacted by the Virginia Flaggers with that info, 5 of them said Rawls lied, and that there should be a pole and CBF. One of the other 2 nonresponsive SCV camps is one that Rawls is a member of.
MoCman Rawls told SCV CIC Givens that were a pole and Confederate Flag be placed on the grounds, the Mayor of Appomattox would be offended. CIC Givens contacted the Mayor and was told that was not true.
Of course many of us out here in Ed Sebasta's "Neo-Confederateville" are still sore MoCman Rawls actually entertained the idea of dropping the term "Confederacy" from the Museum's name.
So, on behalf of the Virginia Flaggers, joined by the National SCV, and 290 Foundation, we say as the Museum of the Confederacy, for the NC led troops in the Battle of Appomattox, for the Army of Northern Virginia, and to do the honorable thing, fly a ANV CBF or 3rd National on the grounds of the new MoC Appomattox.
Thank you again Mr Harris
When it comes to honoring Confederate soldiers, I thought it might be appropriate here to offer the words of Joseph W. Thayer - a man who fought to SAVE the Union. “We may join with them in extolling the heroism of the people of the South, but we must not be asked to countenance or to palliate the gigantic crime which they committed in seeking to destroy the Union, or to allow the attempts to distort the facts of history to go unrebuked.”
ReplyDelete- Address of J. W. Thayer - to the Massachusetts GAR, 1877.
If by the Union, you mean that part where a functional federal government still exists and one where the Constitution still applied, then the Union was still intact and not threatened. Noone was attacking Washington.
ReplyDeleteThe Union was still there, just the square mileage was smaller.
Harris says:
ReplyDeleteMarch 26, 2012 at 4:32 pm
Scott â?? I can almost see having the several Confederate flags on display in the context you mention. Still â?? that is not what the flaggers want. They want equal recognition and equal honor â?? as if the Confederacy remained a legitimate nation.
Not in Lexington, Not at the Chapel behind the VMFA, Not in Appomattox. I once read somewhere a famous guy say that historical distortions need to be rebuked. Oh, Thayer in your above post! Yes, consider yourself rebuked!
By Union I mean the United States that the white people of eleven southern states tried to dissolve - and failed...I mean really failed - in a catastrophic way.
ReplyDeleteAs for the rest, I am not sure you are making sense anymore - you just sound angry. Debating with angry people is pretty futile.
No sir. No argument, just pointing out you claim to know what the Flaggers want. I say you are mistaken. I gave 3 examples of that.
ReplyDeleteI am in no way under any illusions I would receive a fair shake on this forum, but I thank you kindly for allowing a differing POV.
God Bless
Not a fair shake? Are you implying that I am underhanded....I laugh sir - in the olden days, this would be grounds for a duel, yes? Thankfully we have moved beyond that archaic practice.
ReplyDeleteAnyway - all joking aside, I am pretty sure that I do know what the flaggers want - they want equal honor and respect for a lost cause - from a private institution. But there is no reason why the institution should honor their demands. That is what they want, right? I mean - you said yourself:
"So, on behalf of the Virginia Flaggers, joined by the National SCV, and 290 Foundation, we say as the Museum of the Confederacy, for the NC led troops in the Battle of Appomattox, for the Army of Northern Virginia, and to do the honorable thing, fly a ANV CBF or 3rd National on the grounds of the new MoC Appomattox."
The syntax is troubling but I get the point.
Peace
PS - so long as people don't get nasty, I allow all points of view on this forum. Thanks for maintaining a sense of decorum - many of your compatriots are not quite as pleasant.
http://www.wset.com/story/17278010/artifacts-ready-for-museums-grand-opening
ReplyDeleteI saw some flags INSIDE the museum - where they belong.
Yet another cowardly White person lets his opinion be known. Hey, Keith, how is it that only White people can be racist and offensive? Negroes and mestizos fly their flags of 'hate' all the time and nothing is ever said. Nonwhites do not care what is offensive to Whites and never have, but that is okay because that is called diversity. Waite Rawls is speaking historical untruths when he says its okay to fly state flags but not Confederate Flags. The issue of state sovereignty ENDED at Appomattox along with the idea of Confederacy, so why fly any flags except the 50 star US flag? He is using so-called 'historical' truths to excuse being a coward. If you are going to be the Museum of Cowardice, at least be honest about it.
ReplyDeleteWOW! Look at you getting all excited! And when did I ever say that only white people could be racist? I certainly would not suggest that white people hold the monopoly on racism. And why are you bringing racism into this discussion anyway? I thought this was about flags and honoring (or not honoring) the Confederacy.
ReplyDeleteBut hey - thanks for comment anyway. You make my job easy :)
�We may join with them in extolling the heroism of the people of the South, but we must not be asked to countenance or to palliate the gigantic crime which they committed in seeking to destroy the Union, or to allow the attempts to distort the facts of history to go unrebuked.�
ReplyDelete- Address of J. W. Thayer � to the Massachusetts GAR, 1877.
Hmmm. Might have to steal this quote.
Richard - please do steal at will. It is a great quote and I have several more like them in my upcoming book on Civil War veterans. Should be out soon - I'll keep all posted.
ReplyDeleteNeil,The New York Times didn't seem that opposed to the etracion of South Sudan or Kosovo or Montenegro. The European Union is dying before our eyes. It is going the way of the Soviet Union. Why is it unreasonable to advocate a similar dissolution of the United States? You make it sound like this a far fetched scenario. In reality, Congress has about a 9 percent approval rating, at least 25 percent of Americans believe that secession is a likely future scenario, and around 50 percent of Americans consider the federal government a threat to their freedom.Racial attitudes are hardening. In The New York Times, you can read about the racialization of the Republican Party and Democrats explicitly abandoning the White working class..Never before in American political history has White America been as pessimistic as it is today. Having seen the collapse of the USSR and the imminent collapse of the EU, progressives cling to the delusion that history moves in their direction.It doesn't.
ReplyDelete