tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post3000267454113267277..comments2023-09-29T06:18:27.221-07:00Comments on Cosmic America: My One and Only Flagger PostM. Keith Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02444898713867430753noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-55538383341745795432012-03-26T05:44:39.000-07:002012-03-26T05:44:39.000-07:00I'm all for flying the flag there. That's ...I'm all for flying the flag there. That's my opinion on it but I can see how it could go any way. Personally, looking at it from the other side if there was a native American museum would they want the American flag being flown there?Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-13226153700934923772012-03-26T07:22:27.000-07:002012-03-26T07:22:27.000-07:00I'm all for flying one there, too. I don't...I'm all for flying one there, too. I don't own a Confederate flag myself, however, it is apart of the history. The flag doesn't need to have such a negative connotation. Unfortunately, it sometimes falls into the wrong hands.Reneenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-76593471163571946432012-03-26T08:14:34.000-07:002012-03-26T08:14:34.000-07:00I say no. The flaggers have taken the Confederate...I say no. The flaggers have taken the Confederate Battle Flag out of its historical context to mean different and often malicious things - indeed, it is the antithesis of freedom since it symbolizes the slaveholding republic the rebels waged the cruelest of wars to create. <br><br>In 2009 I visited Fort Sumter where they fly two Confederate flags but in a unique context. In a line, they have the 34-star US flag of 1861, the first Confederate flag, the South Carolina flag, the second Confederate flag (with a small Stars and Bars in the corner), and the 36-star US flag (West Virginia and Nevada joined the Union during the war). But behind them flies the 50-star US flag, twice as large and twice as high as the others. This has a clear order of precedence and importance. Perhaps the MoC could do something like this, where the Confederate flags are given no special consideration, and definitely not equal to the United States of today.Scott A. MacKenziehttp://theslaveholderswar.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-55031821035775341262012-03-26T09:08:08.000-07:002012-03-26T09:08:08.000-07:00I guess I don't have an issue with them flying...I guess I don't have an issue with them flying at a museum setting. That's the purpose of museums...to commemorate the past. Fort Sumter has the flags flying overhead so I wouldn't have much of an issue at a museum.Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-49321095628112566312012-03-26T09:22:44.000-07:002012-03-26T09:22:44.000-07:00John - Thanks for the comment. But I respectfully ...John - Thanks for the comment. But I respectfully disagree. A museum's job is not to commemorate the past, but to preserve it. There is an enormous difference.Keith Harrishttp://cosmicamerica.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-15963823700477771602012-03-26T09:29:32.000-07:002012-03-26T09:29:32.000-07:00Renee - thank you for the comment. I do not believ...Renee - thank you for the comment. I do not believe that the MOC is worried about negative connotations as much as I am. Their central concern, as stated by the director, is that they are interpreting Appomattox as a site of reunion (personally, I think they are a little off base. Appomattox, in my opinion, is a site of persistent contention, as evidenced by this controversy). According to the MOC, flying a flag of disunion above the building alongside the United States flag would therefore be in appropriate. But as it is a museum, I am quite certain there will be plenty of Confederate flags inside and on display in what the MOC deems as the proper context.Keith Harrishttp://cosmicamerica.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-57974875745658713832012-03-26T09:31:03.000-07:002012-03-26T09:31:03.000-07:00Chris - I suppose that all depends on the context....Chris - I suppose that all depends on the context.Keith Harrishttp://cosmicamerica.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-87280222149009935992012-03-26T09:32:39.000-07:002012-03-26T09:32:39.000-07:00Scott - I can almost see having the several Confed...Scott - I can almost see having the several Confederate flags on display in the context you mention. Still - that is not what the flaggers want. They want equal recognition and equal honor - as if the Confederacy remained a legitimate nation.Keith Harrishttp://cosmicamerica.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-20304724424108520082012-03-26T11:14:41.000-07:002012-03-26T11:14:41.000-07:00Keith, my point was to have the items of the past ...Keith, my point was to have the items of the past on display. History can be preserved in a storeroom somewhere in the basement of a university library. Things like these, even flags, should be out on display to serve as a remembrance of its place in history. I didn't mention they should be celebrated, but rather commemorated on their importance in our history.Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-32299864337162850682012-03-26T11:34:09.000-07:002012-03-26T11:34:09.000-07:00John - I believe they should be on display as well...John - I believe they should be on display as well - but inside the museum, in their proper context as historical relics. The flaggers want them flying alongside the US flag and state flags above the building. This I believe legitimizes the Confederacy and its cause and should not be done. The MOC believes that this would go against their views of Appomattox as a site of reunion. Either way - as museum pieces...I am more than fine with displaying the flags. And I am quite sure they will have plenty to behold - just like the MOC in Richmond. <br><br>Thanks again for your comments. And perhaps I misunderstood your meaning - but I understand "commemoration" as a celebration in which an event or person is remembered. I am heavily invested in remembering the Confederacy and its symbols (it's my life's work) - but not commemorating them.Keith Harrishttp://cosmicamerica.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-91853189337109412652012-03-26T13:57:38.000-07:002012-03-26T13:57:38.000-07:00I will have to agree with you Kieth, the flag shou...I will have to agree with you Kieth, the flag should be on display but not over the building. I would no sooner support the flying of a foreign flag over any building in the US, let alone one from an entity no longer in existence. Planting a flag is a message of ownership and relationship, the Confederacy is related to our history but owns nothing of a material nature. I also disagree with movements to disavow our history with that banner or remove it from public sight, it just shouldn't fly over any building.Phillip M. Bryanthttp://phillipmbryant.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-70013587281991754762012-03-26T15:58:15.000-07:002012-03-26T15:58:15.000-07:00This museum is privately owned, correct? If that&#...This museum is privately owned, correct? If that's the case, then it's their decision on what flags to fly.Reneenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-20337730890131386752012-03-27T01:41:56.000-07:002012-03-27T01:41:56.000-07:00Yes Renee, it is - and they made their decision no...Yes Renee, it is - and they made their decision not to fly the flag. But now the museum is being bullied by others who think they should - and by implication, honor the Confederate government.Keith Harrishttp://cosmicamerica.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-25702697943282083112012-03-27T01:42:47.000-07:002012-03-27T01:42:47.000-07:00Thanks for your comment, Phillip - I agree entirel...Thanks for your comment, Phillip - I agree entirely.Keith Harrishttp://cosmicamerica.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-64061596799613498132012-03-28T05:36:15.000-07:002012-03-28T05:36:15.000-07:00Kieth, Thanks for the forum.MoCman Rawls is incorr...Kieth, <br>Thanks for the forum.<br><br>MoCman Rawls is incorrect on a few things, as in there was no reunification at Appomattox, only a small battle and a surrender. In this context, the Virginia Flaggers say either a ANV battleflag or 3rd National CSA should fly, on a pole, on the grounds. All the rest you say is incorrect.<br><br> Only Rawls said we Flaggers wanted it to be crammed into his precious "Reunification Promande" We have told him both on the phone and via email that a flag should be placed seperate, but definantly included on the grounds outside.<br><br> MoCman Rawls stated in defence of the new museum that the MoC is 'historically correct'. Just off the top of my head, I do believe that neither will the state flags to be displayed be period accurate, or that in 1865, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, Missouri, Maryland and Kentucky did not have state flags.<br><br> MoCman Rawls has said that he presented the Appomattox plans in person to 7 different SCV camps, and they all gave full acclimation without dissent. When the 7 camps were contacted by the Virginia Flaggers with that info, 5 of them said Rawls lied, and that there should be a pole and CBF. One of the other 2 nonresponsive SCV camps is one that Rawls is a member of. <br><br> MoCman Rawls told SCV CIC Givens that were a pole and Confederate Flag be placed on the grounds, the Mayor of Appomattox would be offended. CIC Givens contacted the Mayor and was told that was not true.<br><br> Of course many of us out here in Ed Sebasta's "Neo-Confederateville" are still sore MoCman Rawls actually entertained the idea of dropping the term "Confederacy" from the Museum's name.<br><br> So, on behalf of the Virginia Flaggers, joined by the National SCV, and 290 Foundation, we say as the Museum of the Confederacy, for the NC led troops in the Battle of Appomattox, for the Army of Northern Virginia, and to do the honorable thing, fly a ANV CBF or 3rd National on the grounds of the new MoC Appomattox.<br><br> Thank you again Mr HarrisBilly Beardennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-84841497168120886332012-03-29T02:48:58.000-07:002012-03-29T02:48:58.000-07:00When it comes to honoring Confederate soldiers, I ...When it comes to honoring Confederate soldiers, I thought it might be appropriate here to offer the words of Joseph W. Thayer - a man who fought to SAVE the Union. “We may join with them in extolling the heroism of the people of the South, but we must not be asked to countenance or to palliate the gigantic crime which they committed in seeking to destroy the Union, or to allow the attempts to distort the facts of history to go unrebuked.” <br><br>- Address of J. W. Thayer - to the Massachusetts GAR, 1877.Keith Harrishttp://cosmicamerica.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-31878397497915430602012-03-29T03:21:21.000-07:002012-03-29T03:21:21.000-07:00If by the Union, you mean that part where a functi...If by the Union, you mean that part where a functional federal government still exists and one where the Constitution still applied, then the Union was still intact and not threatened. Noone was attacking Washington. <br><br> The Union was still there, just the square mileage was smaller.Billy Beardennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-61360167427700804312012-03-29T03:44:29.000-07:002012-03-29T03:44:29.000-07:00Harris says: March 26, 2012 at 4:32 pm Scott â?? ...Harris says: <br>March 26, 2012 at 4:32 pm <br>Scott â?? I can almost see having the several Confederate flags on display in the context you mention. Still â?? that is not what the flaggers want. They want equal recognition and equal honor â?? as if the Confederacy remained a legitimate nation.<br><br>Not in Lexington, Not at the Chapel behind the VMFA, Not in Appomattox. I once read somewhere a famous guy say that historical distortions need to be rebuked. Oh, Thayer in your above post! Yes, consider yourself rebuked!Billy Beardennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-40112655766493942192012-03-29T04:22:01.000-07:002012-03-29T04:22:01.000-07:00By Union I mean the United States that the white p...By Union I mean the United States that the white people of eleven southern states tried to dissolve - and failed...I mean really failed - in a catastrophic way. <br><br>As for the rest, I am not sure you are making sense anymore - you just sound angry. Debating with angry people is pretty futile.Keith Harrishttp://cosmicamerica.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-28783838713250376462012-03-29T06:36:30.000-07:002012-03-29T06:36:30.000-07:00No sir. No argument, just pointing out you claim t...No sir. No argument, just pointing out you claim to know what the Flaggers want. I say you are mistaken. I gave 3 examples of that. <br>I am in no way under any illusions I would receive a fair shake on this forum, but I thank you kindly for allowing a differing POV.<br>God BlessBilly Beardennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-52880858701407829102012-03-29T07:39:20.000-07:002012-03-29T07:39:20.000-07:00Not a fair shake? Are you implying that I am under...Not a fair shake? Are you implying that I am underhanded....I laugh sir - in the olden days, this would be grounds for a duel, yes? Thankfully we have moved beyond that archaic practice. <br><br>Anyway - all joking aside, I am pretty sure that I do know what the flaggers want - they want equal honor and respect for a lost cause - from a private institution. But there is no reason why the institution should honor their demands. That is what they want, right? I mean - you said yourself: <br><br>"So, on behalf of the Virginia Flaggers, joined by the National SCV, and 290 Foundation, we say as the Museum of the Confederacy, for the NC led troops in the Battle of Appomattox, for the Army of Northern Virginia, and to do the honorable thing, fly a ANV CBF or 3rd National on the grounds of the new MoC Appomattox."<br><br>The syntax is troubling but I get the point. <br><br>Peace<br><br>PS - so long as people don't get nasty, I allow all points of view on this forum. Thanks for maintaining a sense of decorum - many of your compatriots are not quite as pleasant.Keith Harrishttp://cosmicamerica.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-68804733669599959522012-03-29T09:33:16.000-07:002012-03-29T09:33:16.000-07:00http://www.wset.com/story/17278010/artifacts-ready...http://www.wset.com/story/17278010/artifacts-ready-for-museums-grand-opening<br><br>I saw some flags INSIDE the museum - where they belong.Keith Harrishttp://cosmicamerica.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-71102603088319033722012-03-30T01:06:07.000-07:002012-03-30T01:06:07.000-07:00Yet another cowardly White person lets his opinion...Yet another cowardly White person lets his opinion be known. Hey, Keith, how is it that only White people can be racist and offensive? Negroes and mestizos fly their flags of 'hate' all the time and nothing is ever said. Nonwhites do not care what is offensive to Whites and never have, but that is okay because that is called diversity. Waite Rawls is speaking historical untruths when he says its okay to fly state flags but not Confederate Flags. The issue of state sovereignty ENDED at Appomattox along with the idea of Confederacy, so why fly any flags except the 50 star US flag? He is using so-called 'historical' truths to excuse being a coward. If you are going to be the Museum of Cowardice, at least be honest about it.Walter Ringnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-4603584512447176392012-03-30T01:24:27.000-07:002012-03-30T01:24:27.000-07:00WOW! Look at you getting all excited! And when did...WOW! Look at you getting all excited! And when did I ever say that only white people could be racist? I certainly would not suggest that white people hold the monopoly on racism. And why are you bringing racism into this discussion anyway? I thought this was about flags and honoring (or not honoring) the Confederacy. <br><br>But hey - thanks for comment anyway. You make my job easy :)Keith Harrishttp://cosmicamerica.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8262783067993808760.post-88994412035709041502012-03-30T10:09:34.000-07:002012-03-30T10:09:34.000-07:00�We may join with them in extolling the her...�We may join with them in extolling the heroism of the people of the South, but we must not be asked to countenance or to palliate the gigantic crime which they committed in seeking to destroy the Union, or to allow the attempts to distort the facts of history to go unrebuked.� <br><br>- Address of J. W. Thayer � to the Massachusetts GAR, 1877.<br><br>Hmmm. Might have to steal this quote.Richardhttp://buffaloesoldiers27june1862.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.com